Momentum & Recognition
Even in the modern times, guys like Sam Pitroda (unsung hero of our first modernization), Manmohan Singh and Raghuram Rajan were brought to help India after seeing their accomplishments elsewhere.For some people, the stint abroad is a time to learn new concepts, time to get the momentum in individual careers and time to get identified in populations much smaller than ours. This gives the push for doing bigger things in India.
Dhirubhai worked in the middle east before founding Reliance. Netaji, Nehru and Patel went through education in London. Raghuram Rajan got educated at MIT and worked abroad before returning to India as RBI governor.
Not just these biggies, but look around for creative new businesses in many sectors - chances are that they got their momentum or learning or the cash while working elsewhere. Many entrepreneurs, thus leave India to start-up in California or New York. Some of them do return back like Mahesh Murthy did after getting experience at Oglivy, HK. Even recently, a flight instructor from the US return back as a dairy farmer in Mumbai and could be at the starting point of a revolution there: The New York Times
Career Opportunities
In many sectors it is hard to grow vertically upward. People at the lower ranks are usually treated pretty shabbily in India. On the other hand, the lower ranks in software, investment banking or consulting is treated a little better in the US. You might be a master of Hadoop or Scala or Robotics, but unless you are in the valley right now, you might not get the ecosystem to be the rockstar you deserve to be.Thus, it is slightly easy to establish yourself abroad and return to India at the Vice President level in about 15-20 years. Once you get to a Vice President level of a major company anywhere, you get a lot of door opening in India. You will have the cred, resources and expertise.
A couple of my relatives have done this and used US as a stepping stone and then going on to do business across the world with base in India.
Escape Poverty
A couple of my uncles came from quite poor backgrounds. Their fathers were postmen (not a well paying job). They could have found jobs in India, but it would take a long time to escape from the generations of poverty. Moving to US and Australia, helped them get their entire family out of poverty's vicious mouth.Another close friend of mine has 8 siblings and none in his family is educated. Had he taken a job in India, he might be able to get out of poverty, but might not have had enough resources to get the rest of the family out. He now makes six figures in the US and has changed the destiny of his whole extended family. I could tell plenty of heart-wrenching inspiring stories from my close circles. But, the point is that these guys are changing the future of a small community around them and India should be proud of them regardless of where they live.
Different life
We are not all made the same. We have different requirements and different aspirations. Some want to travel a lot all over the world. It is relatively easy to do that sitting in Europe (both from airfare and visa perspective). Some want to get on to unorthodox careers that their family in India might not approve of. It is easy to do that when your family sits across the world and thinks you are doing "software engineering".Perpetual Whiners
For some people, the motivation to leave India is because - "the whole system is screwed up". They take whining to be their core hobby and believe that there is a green grass on the other side. A lot of times they realize that the grass is not that green anywhere and they get stuck unable to be either a Videshi or a Desi. India doesn't really lose when these people leave.Leave a sorrowful past & start a new life
Another friend of mine, lost both her husband and her mother in quick accidents. By the time she was 24, she was both without a parent and a husband. India is sometimes a scary place for such girls. Staying in Seattle helps her get out of that depression (where no one reminds her of what happened in her life) and also do more constructive work that distracts her. I know few of such Indian widows and I'm happy that they are in the US. In India we have not yet progressed enough to let them lead a normal life. Hopefully some Ishwar Chandra Vidyasagar 2.0 will make things better.All said, the motivations to move abroad is increasingly getting weaker as India is progressing quite fast.
One tip for those embarking on this adventure is, attempt to boldly see the world in a positive frame of mind. Accept your identity and realize that every house has its woes. So, stop wasting time with negativity, but see the positive stuff around. In that mindset, India is where you keep one foot and like the Vamana avatar of Vishnu you try to use the other leg to cover the world.
Personal experience:
After about 5.5 years in the US, I left for India. Moving to India - part 5. I was having various idealistic notions (damn you Swades) and wanted to teach. I offered to teach in various places for free, but no one took seriously. It was my dream to teach business, algorithms and logic. I even rented a shabby classroom in this building near Mulund station, but people didn't want to go for an unrecognized brand. After a few months of operation, had to shut it down.
Hopefully, sometime soon we can afford to move back to India. There is no place like home!
Deepak Alse, Product/Program Management pro... (more)
104 upvotes by Sudhendu Pandey, Saurabh Mahadik, Utkarsh Bhatt, (more)
I don't know if I want to leave India but it is always a thought that keeps lingering. Disclaimer before I move further - I've spent significant portions of my life in a range of 'foreign' countries from Yemen (amongst the poorest countries) to USA (so-called 'Developed' nation), so I am less prone to nationalistic notions of patriotism and romantic notions of how 'phoren' countries are magically better.
I don't know if will leave India but if I do, it will be a mix of the following factors
1. Mediocrity combined with a 'scarcity' mindset- When there are a billion minds struggling to survive, mediocrity is easy to sustain. Generally speaking, our society tends to accept/condone mediocrity in everything. In the 'chalta hain' type of society, a brilliant few will often find themselves overburdened or overshadowed. The guys at the median will remain apathetic and the guys at the bottom are hopeless (except for a few weeks before elections). The scarcity mindset is everywhere - from reservations that now include hundreds of categories and communities trying to split the pie in more ways, to crony capitalism that focuses on how to keep competition out of the game.
2. Groupism combined with self-preserving blindness - Culturally, we are like that wonly. To some extent, up until the 1980s, the nation was slowly moving towards becoming a little less sectarian. Since the late 1980s, the nation is generally drifting towards identity based politics and a tug of war between 'secular' and 'communal' theories – Probably an outcome of the 1976 constitutional amendment that suddenly added ‘socialist’ and ‘secular’ to the preamble.
3. Institutionalized & Nationalized dislike for achievement and success except when it has to do with cash (not just wealth) - Beyond the academic childhood phase where everyone is pushed to compete for better, as a nation, we have taken the ' Karmanye Vadhikaraste, Ma phaleshou kada chana, Ma Karma Phala Hetur Bhurmatey Sangostva Akarmani ‘ veryliterally( See Footnote 1 for translation) - It is almost impossible to pursue any goal to its logical conclusion. Look at how quickly people find reasons to doubt success and even dispel its reality. Why bother with achievement when you can simply survive!
4. Lack of a sense of history - Yes, I do not consider the revivalist jingoism about ' The good old days before Mughals and Colonial rule' as an indication of our awareness of history. We've never truly transitioned to a democratic society because we have no sense of what it means to be collectively responsible as a individuals in a society - From being protected by feudal lords and kings, we have transitioned to expecting a 'mai-baap' government, lordship of bureaucracy and 'naukri providing' crony capitalists. Our sense of history is marred by ideas about how one group or the other destroyed the prevalent group, by boundaries of religious superiority and ideas about 'the good old days'. In some sense, Indians do not have a unifying sense of history because we never really have had a gruesome event that wiped out a significant part of the population. Anyways, if someone attacked us, we were always likely to join forces and then get them converted to the idea of staying with us.
5. Lack of a unifying vision and anything that remotely resembles leadership of character - The best that our political, social and business leaders can envision is an opportunistic vision of how we will be a country minus its current negatives. All the talk about ' Garibi Hatao' or ' Electricity for everyone' or 'Jobs of everyone' is not visionary - These are just patch fixes that we allow our leaders to promise. We are not a resource poor country in any sense - we just lack the ability to think big as a society.
6. Armchair Intellectual Masturbation that loves paternalistic post-feudal framework of handouts and fixing what went wrong in the past. Read the manifesto of any political party and you'll find random promises that have no underlying structure for progress except the idea that they will change what happened yesterday. Watch the TV debates and you'll find leaders and 'intellectuals' engaged in hallucinatory debates on gender/caste/communal politics and such other things that have little or no direct relevance to real problems like lack of water/electricity/food. Even when the basics are discussed, the intellectual debate focuses on paternalistic ideas about how we should 'take care' of the disadvantaged. As a nation, our approach towards developing the society has become a meaningless charade of ideas about 'uplifting the downtrodden' - Gandhi did a disservice by coining paternalistic terms like 'Harijan'and we are now stuck with generation of leaders who think that their responsibility ends with 'helping'; these leaders don't want to become accountable for doing things that empower those who need opportunities. So, instead of expanding opportunities for everyone to move up the ladder, we are busy pulling everyone onto debates and discussions about inequities and the history of how we were ruined.
7. Inability to go beyond three polarizing perspectives.
a. The religious nationalist group that yearns for the glorious days on the past,
b. The secular socialist group busy finding ways to divide the pie,
c. The apathetic opportunist group that keeps saying ' We are like this only' complaining about corruption and such other ailments while jumping at the first chance to enrich itself even if that involves corrupt ways.
The 'Low cost' argument about the cost of living in India is a weak red herring of false pride - A lot like the argument about ' Why do I need pure water when I can just distill my piss in a solar heated aluminum can? ‘. A higher standard of life and living will cost more unless you want to borrow from the future to pay for present. Anyways, the low costs are slowly and significantly rising - It won't be long before the cost of fuel and food in India will come on par with the rest of the world and then the idea of life under 200$ will dissipate into thin air.
We, as a society, yearn for the past more than we strain to build a future – It is built into our rituals, our festivals and our social structure. We are trained to look at our history with tainted eyes that vacillate between absolute devotion and absolute disgust. We tend to either believe that our past/our forefathers had all the answers or that they had none. We have no idea of ‘India’ as a country of the future beyond what we can see of it in the absence of its current set of negatives like poverty, lack of infrastructure, caste and communal problems.
India as a 'country' is a recent occurrence - So I think it is okay for people to not be obsessed with the idea of changing it. Maybe, Indian identity will evolve over the next 100 years. In fact, what's bigger and more uniquely identifiable around the world is the 'Indian' race that includes Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Nepalis & SriLankans ; This race will continue to spread wide, survive, intermingle and thrive – Probably not in their home countries but definitely elsewhere.
I tend to agree with Gauri Noolkar's assessments about lack of infrastructure, general sense of security, environmental factors etc. And I also agree with others who point out that every country has its challenges. But it is not the presence of these factors in other countries that moves the argument; it is the multiplicative effects of the way these factors interact in India to create a feeling of stagnation about the future, the feeling that nothing will ever change because it has not really changed in 70 years. Sure, it has changed but the change is barely enough to keep up with the general direction of progress around the world. It is easy to feel smug about how we are better than Yemen or Somalia but does that achieve much?
I have only one life to live and I have no grandiose notions about my ability to change the lives of a billion. Yes, some of you may feel like that's an excuse for not 'dedicating' my life to that purpose, but honestly, no single person has ever changed the world and it is always better to focus on doing something that makes the best use of your capabilities - If we focus on being the best and solving practical problems, the ideological and systemic problems will also get resolved slowly.
However, I do have a desire to change the world one person at a time and I'll start with my children. If the factors mentioned above start changing in ways that indicate a better hope for the future in India and I feel that I am able to make that change happen, I'll not leave India - There have been intermittent rays of hope but of late things haven't been so good. I'd like to believe that things get worse before they get better and I sincerely hope that they will.
If I chose to leave India, it will be out of frustrations associated with how its citizens are collectively focused more on 'Being Indian' and less on ' Making India'. If I leave India, it will be because of the hopes, aspirations and opportunities I want my children to have. If I leave India, it will be because we’ve lost focus and attention to the fundamental guarantees our brilliantly written modern constitution gave us – Justice, Equality and Liberty. If I leave India, it will be to liberate my hopes and give them the best opportunity that exists in this world, so I will be the best that I can be. That's in some sense very Indian about me; that is '@Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam (The Earth Indeed in a Family)'
Footnote 1 : This is a verse from the Bhagavad Gita that loosely translates into - ' You have the right only to the work that needs to be done,
but never to the fruits that may come from that.
Do not do your work for the pursuit of the fruits.
And do not become bound to inaction either.'
I don't know if will leave India but if I do, it will be a mix of the following factors
1. Mediocrity combined with a 'scarcity' mindset- When there are a billion minds struggling to survive, mediocrity is easy to sustain. Generally speaking, our society tends to accept/condone mediocrity in everything. In the 'chalta hain' type of society, a brilliant few will often find themselves overburdened or overshadowed. The guys at the median will remain apathetic and the guys at the bottom are hopeless (except for a few weeks before elections). The scarcity mindset is everywhere - from reservations that now include hundreds of categories and communities trying to split the pie in more ways, to crony capitalism that focuses on how to keep competition out of the game.
2. Groupism combined with self-preserving blindness - Culturally, we are like that wonly. To some extent, up until the 1980s, the nation was slowly moving towards becoming a little less sectarian. Since the late 1980s, the nation is generally drifting towards identity based politics and a tug of war between 'secular' and 'communal' theories – Probably an outcome of the 1976 constitutional amendment that suddenly added ‘socialist’ and ‘secular’ to the preamble.
3. Institutionalized & Nationalized dislike for achievement and success except when it has to do with cash (not just wealth) - Beyond the academic childhood phase where everyone is pushed to compete for better, as a nation, we have taken the ' Karmanye Vadhikaraste, Ma phaleshou kada chana, Ma Karma Phala Hetur Bhurmatey Sangostva Akarmani ‘ veryliterally( See Footnote 1 for translation) - It is almost impossible to pursue any goal to its logical conclusion. Look at how quickly people find reasons to doubt success and even dispel its reality. Why bother with achievement when you can simply survive!
4. Lack of a sense of history - Yes, I do not consider the revivalist jingoism about ' The good old days before Mughals and Colonial rule' as an indication of our awareness of history. We've never truly transitioned to a democratic society because we have no sense of what it means to be collectively responsible as a individuals in a society - From being protected by feudal lords and kings, we have transitioned to expecting a 'mai-baap' government, lordship of bureaucracy and 'naukri providing' crony capitalists. Our sense of history is marred by ideas about how one group or the other destroyed the prevalent group, by boundaries of religious superiority and ideas about 'the good old days'. In some sense, Indians do not have a unifying sense of history because we never really have had a gruesome event that wiped out a significant part of the population. Anyways, if someone attacked us, we were always likely to join forces and then get them converted to the idea of staying with us.
5. Lack of a unifying vision and anything that remotely resembles leadership of character - The best that our political, social and business leaders can envision is an opportunistic vision of how we will be a country minus its current negatives. All the talk about ' Garibi Hatao' or ' Electricity for everyone' or 'Jobs of everyone' is not visionary - These are just patch fixes that we allow our leaders to promise. We are not a resource poor country in any sense - we just lack the ability to think big as a society.
6. Armchair Intellectual Masturbation that loves paternalistic post-feudal framework of handouts and fixing what went wrong in the past. Read the manifesto of any political party and you'll find random promises that have no underlying structure for progress except the idea that they will change what happened yesterday. Watch the TV debates and you'll find leaders and 'intellectuals' engaged in hallucinatory debates on gender/caste/communal politics and such other things that have little or no direct relevance to real problems like lack of water/electricity/food. Even when the basics are discussed, the intellectual debate focuses on paternalistic ideas about how we should 'take care' of the disadvantaged. As a nation, our approach towards developing the society has become a meaningless charade of ideas about 'uplifting the downtrodden' - Gandhi did a disservice by coining paternalistic terms like 'Harijan'and we are now stuck with generation of leaders who think that their responsibility ends with 'helping'; these leaders don't want to become accountable for doing things that empower those who need opportunities. So, instead of expanding opportunities for everyone to move up the ladder, we are busy pulling everyone onto debates and discussions about inequities and the history of how we were ruined.
7. Inability to go beyond three polarizing perspectives.
a. The religious nationalist group that yearns for the glorious days on the past,
b. The secular socialist group busy finding ways to divide the pie,
c. The apathetic opportunist group that keeps saying ' We are like this only' complaining about corruption and such other ailments while jumping at the first chance to enrich itself even if that involves corrupt ways.
The 'Low cost' argument about the cost of living in India is a weak red herring of false pride - A lot like the argument about ' Why do I need pure water when I can just distill my piss in a solar heated aluminum can? ‘. A higher standard of life and living will cost more unless you want to borrow from the future to pay for present. Anyways, the low costs are slowly and significantly rising - It won't be long before the cost of fuel and food in India will come on par with the rest of the world and then the idea of life under 200$ will dissipate into thin air.
We, as a society, yearn for the past more than we strain to build a future – It is built into our rituals, our festivals and our social structure. We are trained to look at our history with tainted eyes that vacillate between absolute devotion and absolute disgust. We tend to either believe that our past/our forefathers had all the answers or that they had none. We have no idea of ‘India’ as a country of the future beyond what we can see of it in the absence of its current set of negatives like poverty, lack of infrastructure, caste and communal problems.
India as a 'country' is a recent occurrence - So I think it is okay for people to not be obsessed with the idea of changing it. Maybe, Indian identity will evolve over the next 100 years. In fact, what's bigger and more uniquely identifiable around the world is the 'Indian' race that includes Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Nepalis & SriLankans ; This race will continue to spread wide, survive, intermingle and thrive – Probably not in their home countries but definitely elsewhere.
I tend to agree with Gauri Noolkar's assessments about lack of infrastructure, general sense of security, environmental factors etc. And I also agree with others who point out that every country has its challenges. But it is not the presence of these factors in other countries that moves the argument; it is the multiplicative effects of the way these factors interact in India to create a feeling of stagnation about the future, the feeling that nothing will ever change because it has not really changed in 70 years. Sure, it has changed but the change is barely enough to keep up with the general direction of progress around the world. It is easy to feel smug about how we are better than Yemen or Somalia but does that achieve much?
I have only one life to live and I have no grandiose notions about my ability to change the lives of a billion. Yes, some of you may feel like that's an excuse for not 'dedicating' my life to that purpose, but honestly, no single person has ever changed the world and it is always better to focus on doing something that makes the best use of your capabilities - If we focus on being the best and solving practical problems, the ideological and systemic problems will also get resolved slowly.
However, I do have a desire to change the world one person at a time and I'll start with my children. If the factors mentioned above start changing in ways that indicate a better hope for the future in India and I feel that I am able to make that change happen, I'll not leave India - There have been intermittent rays of hope but of late things haven't been so good. I'd like to believe that things get worse before they get better and I sincerely hope that they will.
If I chose to leave India, it will be out of frustrations associated with how its citizens are collectively focused more on 'Being Indian' and less on ' Making India'. If I leave India, it will be because of the hopes, aspirations and opportunities I want my children to have. If I leave India, it will be because we’ve lost focus and attention to the fundamental guarantees our brilliantly written modern constitution gave us – Justice, Equality and Liberty. If I leave India, it will be to liberate my hopes and give them the best opportunity that exists in this world, so I will be the best that I can be. That's in some sense very Indian about me; that is '@Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam (The Earth Indeed in a Family)'
Footnote 1 : This is a verse from the Bhagavad Gita that loosely translates into - ' You have the right only to the work that needs to be done,
but never to the fruits that may come from that.
Do not do your work for the pursuit of the fruits.
And do not become bound to inaction either.'
The biggest wound I suffered was because of corruption and reservation.
I had appeared for the state medical exam. With my score, if not a government college, I could have easily managed to get a seat in private colleges and take an education loan.
When I went for the counselling, a boy standing in the next queue was waiting to get the admission in a government college. I saw his score card. I was shocked to see that he had scored 30 marks less than I did. And you get it right, he came for the admission and I didn't even get a seat in any college. Reason? He belonged to the reserved category.
A few days later, a friend of mine who had scored 15 marks less than my score got a seat in the best private medical college in my state because her father could afford to pay a 70 lakhs donation.
And I was left nowhere. My desire to go to a medical school was crushed because some lesser deserving candidates took my seat. I've hated this system since then.
Edit - This is especially in response to people who think that I should have studied harder instead of blaming the system, OKAY! Peace out now. I really wish you all were there to see my struggle before you commented such nicely on this answer. Now kindly divert your expertise elsewhere.
I had appeared for the state medical exam. With my score, if not a government college, I could have easily managed to get a seat in private colleges and take an education loan.
When I went for the counselling, a boy standing in the next queue was waiting to get the admission in a government college. I saw his score card. I was shocked to see that he had scored 30 marks less than I did. And you get it right, he came for the admission and I didn't even get a seat in any college. Reason? He belonged to the reserved category.
A few days later, a friend of mine who had scored 15 marks less than my score got a seat in the best private medical college in my state because her father could afford to pay a 70 lakhs donation.
And I was left nowhere. My desire to go to a medical school was crushed because some lesser deserving candidates took my seat. I've hated this system since then.
Edit - This is especially in response to people who think that I should have studied harder instead of blaming the system, OKAY! Peace out now. I really wish you all were there to see my struggle before you commented such nicely on this answer. Now kindly divert your expertise elsewhere.
Because I really don't want to struggle for certain things in life.
I am aware of the fact that struggle is an integral part of life for most of us, and I accept it. I am ready to work hard, to help as many people as I can, and to make sacrifices so that my family and I have a good life. I am ready to put up with problems and hardships which, however, do not include the following.
1. Lack of Basic Infrastructure.
Electricity, water, good roads, good public transport, and better government services. We have been so brainwashed to "accept things as they are" that even these five things seem like way above basic needs. I have had quite a bit of struggle convincing myself that these are reasonable demands. The struggle with others continues.
2. Educational Disappointments.
Where do I start? Teachers who dish out their services like businessmen and then walk out? Lack of values? A complete disregard of languages, literature, history and pretty much all fields except medicine and engineering? A terribly designed syllabus-examination-lear
No thanks. I'd rather try educating my kids somewhere else. Given that I plan to stay at home for a few years once my kids are born, I will start with homeschooling them. Of course, in India, it is hard for a middle class urban family to survive solely on one bread-winner, and I might not have the option of staying at home for a few years which brings me to-
3. Extremely High cost of Living.
You have to shell out loads of money for every single thing that can give you a decent middle class life. Basic things like education, security, health, good quality food, decent transport, and durable clothes mean shelling out a lot of money. Jobs are not in plenty, and since labour is abundant, pay is less. Unless you are stinking rich, there is always a trade-off.
I come from a middle class family and have comparatively meager expenses with adjusting tendencies, but if I have to raise a family, I am not comfortable with asking my children to compromise on basic things. I am not at all eager to spoil them with unnecessary luxuries, but basic things are a must.
4. The Identity Struggle.
It is getting more and more difficult to fit in a society which constantly judges you based on what caste you are, what community you come from, and what you like/dislike. My family and I have repeatedly suffered and denied well-deserved opportunities for being from some privileged class, when all we have wanted was to work hard and have the work recognized. I have been straightaway labelled as a fanatic and an oppressive freak because I love my language and culture (even though I have repeatedly stressed on not extending it to mistreating others who don't; a look at an answer I gave about pride in being a Marathi here on Quora and the consequent bashing is a good representative). At the same time, I am tired of the growing fanaticism and narrow-mindedness at the other end. If only we could have strong roots as well as strong wings, and the freedom to love both.
5. Not For my Daughter (and my son)
Yes, I have had a great childhood, but I pass for my kids. I do not want them pent up in a pressurizing system which is desperate to rob them of a healthy, carefree childhood and push them into endless tuitions, classes, competition and a non-creative atmosphere. And I don't want my daughter to grow up with the same problems and prejudices that I have been facing.
6. Some Clean Air, please.
Clean air, clean water, clean surroundings. I see the effects of growing with pollution, on myself as well as others. I don't need more, thanks.
I am aware that these problems can crop up in almost any part of the world, and are almost universal. I am aware there can be racism, insecurity, hardship, and many unforeseen struggles for myself, and even my kids. I know I can be completely wrong in painting a rosy picture of a life outside India. However, I have hope. I have hope that I will be at peace about something out of these six things. I have hope that I will be able to raise my family and compose myself well enough to be able to deal with the consequent problems with steadfastness and dignity.
As much as it breaks my heart to say it, I have no such hope about life in India currently, and I do not see any surge of hope in the near future
I am aware of the fact that struggle is an integral part of life for most of us, and I accept it. I am ready to work hard, to help as many people as I can, and to make sacrifices so that my family and I have a good life. I am ready to put up with problems and hardships which, however, do not include the following.
1. Lack of Basic Infrastructure.
Electricity, water, good roads, good public transport, and better government services. We have been so brainwashed to "accept things as they are" that even these five things seem like way above basic needs. I have had quite a bit of struggle convincing myself that these are reasonable demands. The struggle with others continues.
2. Educational Disappointments.
Where do I start? Teachers who dish out their services like businessmen and then walk out? Lack of values? A complete disregard of languages, literature, history and pretty much all fields except medicine and engineering? A terribly designed syllabus-examination-lear
No thanks. I'd rather try educating my kids somewhere else. Given that I plan to stay at home for a few years once my kids are born, I will start with homeschooling them. Of course, in India, it is hard for a middle class urban family to survive solely on one bread-winner, and I might not have the option of staying at home for a few years which brings me to-
3. Extremely High cost of Living.
You have to shell out loads of money for every single thing that can give you a decent middle class life. Basic things like education, security, health, good quality food, decent transport, and durable clothes mean shelling out a lot of money. Jobs are not in plenty, and since labour is abundant, pay is less. Unless you are stinking rich, there is always a trade-off.
I come from a middle class family and have comparatively meager expenses with adjusting tendencies, but if I have to raise a family, I am not comfortable with asking my children to compromise on basic things. I am not at all eager to spoil them with unnecessary luxuries, but basic things are a must.
4. The Identity Struggle.
It is getting more and more difficult to fit in a society which constantly judges you based on what caste you are, what community you come from, and what you like/dislike. My family and I have repeatedly suffered and denied well-deserved opportunities for being from some privileged class, when all we have wanted was to work hard and have the work recognized. I have been straightaway labelled as a fanatic and an oppressive freak because I love my language and culture (even though I have repeatedly stressed on not extending it to mistreating others who don't; a look at an answer I gave about pride in being a Marathi here on Quora and the consequent bashing is a good representative). At the same time, I am tired of the growing fanaticism and narrow-mindedness at the other end. If only we could have strong roots as well as strong wings, and the freedom to love both.
5. Not For my Daughter (and my son)
Yes, I have had a great childhood, but I pass for my kids. I do not want them pent up in a pressurizing system which is desperate to rob them of a healthy, carefree childhood and push them into endless tuitions, classes, competition and a non-creative atmosphere. And I don't want my daughter to grow up with the same problems and prejudices that I have been facing.
6. Some Clean Air, please.
Clean air, clean water, clean surroundings. I see the effects of growing with pollution, on myself as well as others. I don't need more, thanks.
I am aware that these problems can crop up in almost any part of the world, and are almost universal. I am aware there can be racism, insecurity, hardship, and many unforeseen struggles for myself, and even my kids. I know I can be completely wrong in painting a rosy picture of a life outside India. However, I have hope. I have hope that I will be at peace about something out of these six things. I have hope that I will be able to raise my family and compose myself well enough to be able to deal with the consequent problems with steadfastness and dignity.
As much as it breaks my heart to say it, I have no such hope about life in India currently, and I do not see any surge of hope in the near future
..only to come back having realized that problems exist in every country, and India's problems are more 'mine' than the problems I've seen elsewhere.
PS: Life is not about the sports car you drive, or the 8 lane highway you drive on, or your Ivy League degree, or the fancy French dinner you are trying to digest.
PS: Life is not about the sports car you drive, or the 8 lane highway you drive on, or your Ivy League degree, or the fancy French dinner you are trying to digest.
Suraj Srinivasa, Lived in India for the most pa... (more)
55 upvotes by Quora User, Quora User, Quora User, (more)
I moved from India to USA for studies. Considering the fees which I spenton studies, I decided to work here and earn back the money to clear the loans which I had taken.
Now, I have a good job here, a comfortable life, and good friends of both Indian and non-Indian origin. It just doesn't make sense for me to move back to India and start over.
Also, I have gotten used to the freedom and the opportunities which I get here. The only thing which binds me to India right now is my extended family who I can skype with whenever I want. Though, there is the occasional craving for pani puri from a roadside vendor or the various other old school restaurants and food joints.
The only way in which I will be contributing to India if I move back is by voting. I will not lie to myself by thinking I will go teach kids in schools or plant trees to make the country better. Career wise, I will more or less end up with the same job as what I am doing here. But I will not be able to drive a swanky car(too crowded in Bangalore), or jump off an airplane with a parachute(for cheap), have a ski resort an hour's drive away from my apartment or simply... play soccer on turf fields for free within 10 minutes from my apartment. I will not get to save money as easily and take a vacation to Brazil for the soccer world cup next year, or travel around Europe easily with the money I will be making in India. When I weigh all these disadvantages which I will face against the contribution which I will make to India if I move, it makes sense to just stay put and enjoy my current life. Before anyone points out, any Indian who is working in USA is bound to pay taxes to India as part of the tax treaty: http://www.irs.gov/pub/ir
One more important contributing factor for me is, I will not get to meet and work with people from various backgrounds, or get to experience so many varied cultures. Even if we manage to grow economically as a country, our thinking is extremely backward. We Indians are by far, the most racist, hypocritical, and rigid people there is. We will not let different cultures come settle in our country and live peacefully.
So considering all these factors, I would rather live a comfortable life here, than move back to India and try to change the country. I am no hero, but nor are the majority of the billion odd people who are letting the country rot.
Now, I have a good job here, a comfortable life, and good friends of both Indian and non-Indian origin. It just doesn't make sense for me to move back to India and start over.
Also, I have gotten used to the freedom and the opportunities which I get here. The only thing which binds me to India right now is my extended family who I can skype with whenever I want. Though, there is the occasional craving for pani puri from a roadside vendor or the various other old school restaurants and food joints.
The only way in which I will be contributing to India if I move back is by voting. I will not lie to myself by thinking I will go teach kids in schools or plant trees to make the country better. Career wise, I will more or less end up with the same job as what I am doing here. But I will not be able to drive a swanky car(too crowded in Bangalore), or jump off an airplane with a parachute(for cheap), have a ski resort an hour's drive away from my apartment or simply... play soccer on turf fields for free within 10 minutes from my apartment. I will not get to save money as easily and take a vacation to Brazil for the soccer world cup next year, or travel around Europe easily with the money I will be making in India. When I weigh all these disadvantages which I will face against the contribution which I will make to India if I move, it makes sense to just stay put and enjoy my current life. Before anyone points out, any Indian who is working in USA is bound to pay taxes to India as part of the tax treaty: http://www.irs.gov/pub/ir
One more important contributing factor for me is, I will not get to meet and work with people from various backgrounds, or get to experience so many varied cultures. Even if we manage to grow economically as a country, our thinking is extremely backward. We Indians are by far, the most racist, hypocritical, and rigid people there is. We will not let different cultures come settle in our country and live peacefully.
So considering all these factors, I would rather live a comfortable life here, than move back to India and try to change the country. I am no hero, but nor are the majority of the billion odd people who are letting the country rot.
Sharoni Poddar, Unity in Diversity! I love Ind... (more)
177 upvotes by Mukund Gupta, Vishwanath Subramanian, Ashish Gupta, (more)
I went to Germany for a few weeks for a students' exchange programme. Smiling at any passer-by was normal there. They made me feel so warm. I adopted my new habit of smiling at people while walking down the lanes. Once I came back to India, I was smiling as usual, but the weird looks and expressions of the people made me realize that this is not Germany and I am not supposed to smile at strangers! People think you are mad or have bad intentions! So sad!
Ok,now lets cut the crap and talk about basics.
My background: Indian male in mid 20s graduated from prestigious engineering institute (hope you get it), working in an investment bank in a metropolitan Indian city. Have had couple of short trips to some developed nations in the past.
These are the reasons why I want to leave India for a couple years and then come back.
Money: Yeah. lets accept it. Single biggest reason, the dollars $$$. I mean, I am drawing a salary in the top 1 percentile among my age group, still I can't think of buying a house in the city I live in. If I take a loan, I'll have to literally shell out a major chunk of my salary in the EMI. On the other hand, an Indian even in an average job working in US can save enough to buy it. We have a weak currency and hence the relative cost of living in Indian cities is comparably higher.
Prestige: If you go back 15 years, going or living abroad was not common for an average middle class Indian and hence there was a prestige associated with living abroad. This is the philosophy we have been fed since childhood that living in USA is the "cool" thing to do. Even today, may be subconsciously, we all have a sense of prestige associated with visiting or living abroad, which is why you see the first thing anyone does when he/she visits any foreign country is facebook check-in at the airport and then continuously upload pics.,
Better quality work: Be it any field, this is the sad truth that all the better quality jobs in most fields simply don't exist in India. If you want to do some challenging quality work or some cutting edge research, there isn't much opportunity in India. Thankfully, this is changing and we see some better opportunities slowly coming to India also.
Experience: This is another big reason. We have been living in India since childhood and now in our youth, we want to experience living in a foreign place which is culturally/socially/econo
I can't say about others but for me I'll never want to live permanently in a foreign country. I mean this is the place I belong to and identify myself. My family lives here and I can't spend my entire life as an outsider in a foreign land. So what I wish to do is live in any foreign country for a couple of years (5-6 years max) and then save enough to come back and live a peaceful life here in India. I know many would argue that once you stay abroad for a couple of years, you would not like to come back but I don't know about future and this is what I think now.
Regarding the many problems that others have pointed out, ofcourse there are problems but its not like you are living in hell. India is still a very nice place to live in, especially if you earn decent enough. I mean we have been living in India since childhood and have thoroughly enjoyed it. Things are changing and we can all expect to live in an even better India in the future. So I could be wrong but I see these reasons given by others as more of "excuses".
My background: Indian male in mid 20s graduated from prestigious engineering institute (hope you get it), working in an investment bank in a metropolitan Indian city. Have had couple of short trips to some developed nations in the past.
These are the reasons why I want to leave India for a couple years and then come back.
Money: Yeah. lets accept it. Single biggest reason, the dollars $$$. I mean, I am drawing a salary in the top 1 percentile among my age group, still I can't think of buying a house in the city I live in. If I take a loan, I'll have to literally shell out a major chunk of my salary in the EMI. On the other hand, an Indian even in an average job working in US can save enough to buy it. We have a weak currency and hence the relative cost of living in Indian cities is comparably higher.
Prestige: If you go back 15 years, going or living abroad was not common for an average middle class Indian and hence there was a prestige associated with living abroad. This is the philosophy we have been fed since childhood that living in USA is the "cool" thing to do. Even today, may be subconsciously, we all have a sense of prestige associated with visiting or living abroad, which is why you see the first thing anyone does when he/she visits any foreign country is facebook check-in at the airport and then continuously upload pics.,
Better quality work: Be it any field, this is the sad truth that all the better quality jobs in most fields simply don't exist in India. If you want to do some challenging quality work or some cutting edge research, there isn't much opportunity in India. Thankfully, this is changing and we see some better opportunities slowly coming to India also.
Experience: This is another big reason. We have been living in India since childhood and now in our youth, we want to experience living in a foreign place which is culturally/socially/econo
I can't say about others but for me I'll never want to live permanently in a foreign country. I mean this is the place I belong to and identify myself. My family lives here and I can't spend my entire life as an outsider in a foreign land. So what I wish to do is live in any foreign country for a couple of years (5-6 years max) and then save enough to come back and live a peaceful life here in India. I know many would argue that once you stay abroad for a couple of years, you would not like to come back but I don't know about future and this is what I think now.
Regarding the many problems that others have pointed out, ofcourse there are problems but its not like you are living in hell. India is still a very nice place to live in, especially if you earn decent enough. I mean we have been living in India since childhood and have thoroughly enjoyed it. Things are changing and we can all expect to live in an even better India in the future. So I could be wrong but I see these reasons given by others as more of "excuses".
I believe that the solution is just based on the neck-to-neck fight of two idealogies.
"I can and I need to take the risk. I need to change the current situation"
or
"I've had it enough. I'll look for other opportunities"
But we need to realize that everybody has their own personal experiences and opinions. They have their own personal constrains based on which they act and decide. So we should not criticize them.
If you have the support and freedom to make your "own" choices; if you can be independent and are in a position to take risks; if you are free from personal obligations like financial constraints & family issues; "You should work to change the nation". On the other hand, if you are restricted by your limitations which you can't ignore, "It is not entirely a bad choice to leave India". It is your life, you gotta live it and protect it. You need to work as hard as possible to live your passions.
But, one shouldn't be completely ignorant about their contribution for the betterment of their nation. Once you realise that you are in a position to take risks, look for options where you can contribute to the growth of India. Come back, invest in business, initiate start-ups, support education & research and explore every possible opportunity where you can bring change.
The brighter side of the fact that India is still a developing country is that, there are many opportunities to change and improve. So be a part of it.
As a final note, I want to clarify that I agree with all the reasons given in the remaining answers. But one should not be carried away by them and come to a conclusion that India is not the right place to live. Even if you have a faintest opportunity in changing something to make things better, "Do it!!"
I read all the answers and thought of commenting but then I would rather post it as an answer.
People say they don't like corruption?
tell me now what do you think?
You say you hate India because of security and safety issues? So you mean to say there are no crimes/rapes/murders committed in other countries. Infact they the number is more but they aren't displayed publicly like our mainstream media does.
You say cost of living is high? LOL
and you also want high quality basic infrastructure and low cost of living at the same time? Well don't you think you are demanding too much?
Well I agree with the reservation system but then IIT and IIM are not the only 2 places to graduate. There are many good schools and colleges out there in India which provide better education. In fact many of my friends are from IIT and they told me that just as a normal engg. college they have to study on their own. The only difference is the crowd that joins and the activities that are held there are more. C'mon now, they have been founded more than 50/60 years ago. It takes time for things to develop. These are usually complaints from engineering students (I am also an engineer).
Never seen a CA student complaint about the system because they know if they want to achieve something they need to work hard and crib about it.
You hate pollution? Who has created it in the first place?
How many of you own a personal car? and then you complain about traffic and pollution.
Jobs? Indian railway is the ninth largest employer in the world. So now you can imagine the many different companies there are, supporting Indian railways and creating job opportunities. The Indian railway aside, there are many other national and international companies offering jobs. If you don't have skills to qualify then don't blame the system. You'll even get rejected in the US or whichever country you are planning to apply to.
Now tell me what is your contribution to the country and to the Indian society?
It's your country, it's our country. Stop complaining and start loving it. We are far better than other countries. Its not a joke running a country with a population of 1.2+ billion. United states is an independent nation for 235+ years and India just 60 years. It takes time to develop and no doubt there is a lot of development seen around in the nation. If you keep comparing then you'll always be disappointed and never be happy. People just see the bad side of India and the good side of other countries. Try the opposite sometime and you'll realize how wrong you are. Just hypocrites all around and I should not forget that even I am one of them.
People say they don't like corruption?
You say you hate India because of security and safety issues? So you mean to say there are no crimes/rapes/murders committed in other countries. Infact they the number is more but they aren't displayed publicly like our mainstream media does.
You say cost of living is high? LOL
Well I agree with the reservation system but then IIT and IIM are not the only 2 places to graduate. There are many good schools and colleges out there in India which provide better education. In fact many of my friends are from IIT and they told me that just as a normal engg. college they have to study on their own. The only difference is the crowd that joins and the activities that are held there are more. C'mon now, they have been founded more than 50/60 years ago. It takes time for things to develop. These are usually complaints from engineering students (I am also an engineer).
Never seen a CA student complaint about the system because they know if they want to achieve something they need to work hard and crib about it.
You hate pollution? Who has created it in the first place?
How many of you own a personal car? and then you complain about traffic and pollution.
Jobs? Indian railway is the ninth largest employer in the world. So now you can imagine the many different companies there are, supporting Indian railways and creating job opportunities. The Indian railway aside, there are many other national and international companies offering jobs. If you don't have skills to qualify then don't blame the system. You'll even get rejected in the US or whichever country you are planning to apply to.
Now tell me what is your contribution to the country and to the Indian society?
It's your country, it's our country. Stop complaining and start loving it. We are far better than other countries. Its not a joke running a country with a population of 1.2+ billion. United states is an independent nation for 235+ years and India just 60 years. It takes time to develop and no doubt there is a lot of development seen around in the nation. If you keep comparing then you'll always be disappointed and never be happy. People just see the bad side of India and the good side of other countries. Try the opposite sometime and you'll realize how wrong you are. Just hypocrites all around and I should not forget that even I am one of them.
Case 1: Walking in East kailash at 10:20 PM talking on my phone; two guys on bike hit me on my head with a Rod; I fell, Took my mobile; I was in pain bleeding on Road (Not so profusely); several vehicles passed, nobody stopped. Two guys came talked to me and helped me in standing up; and then said "à¤ाई आप लकी हो, लास्ट टाइम बंदा ऊपर चला गया था इसी रोड पे… "
Came back home, broken. I was living with my friends then, all working in MNCs. Went to police station, asked me 100 questions and then.. I didn't hear back anything from them.
I thanked God I survived. Be thankful to the lives you have.
Case 2: Shifted in Noida after switching; went to buy some beers at sector -16 shop, Too crowded shop because of friday probably; was waiting patiently in que; One honda city came, the base speakers were too loud in the car; Shouted "ओये बियर की क्रेट लेक डिकी में डाल दे.." He was too busy to hear anything.. "à¤ैन्चो तेरी मा का... " He still didn't hear anything because it was really too crowded. Then one guy from backseat came out and shouted again.. one guy came out from the shop, and didn't realize that these guys were some rich brats.. and shouted back.. "बाप की दुकान नहीं है.. लाइन में आके लगो".. I could hear this discussion and also could see these guys as I was quite outside the shop, but didn't pay attention ; and then I heard that large sound.. Everybody came out of shop to see what happened, and we found; these guys fired a bullet on him with some desi katta. This news appeared in newspaper next day. Some inquiries went.. Things were same again.. after few weeks.. I saw these guys buying beers again.. absolutely no remorse, regret or without any fear. Pushed me back in the line and went ahead for buying.. I didn't say anything.
Case 3: Coming out of great India place in Noida after watching 2012 (I am really fan of these kind of flicks), went alone.. (I was kind of forever alone guy) It was 12:30am, five guys in big audi were drinking out; moved their head to call me up close to them.. I was just looking for autos, then shouted.."BC come here".. I went, they were completely drunk and showed me a real new kind of gun, I don't have any clue why. I just said sorry many times, and pampered them. You all are great guys, they laughed and I took auto to come back. I was shit scared after case 2.
Case 4: Driving back with my pulsar on Noida expressway with normal speed of 80-90 kms, it was drizzling, and visibility was not really good. Saw one guy driving his cycle perpendicular to the road, If I brake, I will skid, If I hit, then probably somebody from behind will hit me. Closed my eyes and edged passed to this guy. I can not imagine that how I survived, but was really really lucky as all trucks, cars and anything can not brake in case I fall. I really don't know what this guy was doing there on the express highway with his fucking cycle!
Apart from these narrow escapes, which have really made me cherish the fact that I am alive, it made me scared also. I might have died also; all people in my family has some or other history of escaping accidents; small or big. Last time, when the tragedy happened in Tamilnadu express when one boggie caught fire (I think it was S13), I was in S3. again lucky.
Okay something about myself, simple, average guy. Tried to help others on weekend (teaching kids); sending all what I was earning since 5 years to my dad to pay back loans he took for our studies. paying a rent of 15K to survive, can not imagine to buy a house because to make down payment, I will have to take a loan.
Always worked hard to the best of my capabilities in office, (I am a 95% student throughout studies); always got the least grades, when it came for appraisals. May be because I was bad in licking.
Was not able to buy anything-save anything-feeling shit scared all the time-and not to say; tried to love my work; but never was respected.
All my close friends went Onsite, and looked fairly happy.
The only thing, that I can think of; I am a big time patriot; feel for India, but if I am not alive; what's the use of it?
I decided to leave.
Came back home, broken. I was living with my friends then, all working in MNCs. Went to police station, asked me 100 questions and then.. I didn't hear back anything from them.
I thanked God I survived. Be thankful to the lives you have.
Case 2: Shifted in Noida after switching; went to buy some beers at sector -16 shop, Too crowded shop because of friday probably; was waiting patiently in que; One honda city came, the base speakers were too loud in the car; Shouted "ओये बियर की क्रेट लेक डिकी में डाल दे.." He was too busy to hear anything.. "à¤ैन्चो तेरी मा का... " He still didn't hear anything because it was really too crowded. Then one guy from backseat came out and shouted again.. one guy came out from the shop, and didn't realize that these guys were some rich brats.. and shouted back.. "बाप की दुकान नहीं है.. लाइन में आके लगो".. I could hear this discussion and also could see these guys as I was quite outside the shop, but didn't pay attention ; and then I heard that large sound.. Everybody came out of shop to see what happened, and we found; these guys fired a bullet on him with some desi katta. This news appeared in newspaper next day. Some inquiries went.. Things were same again.. after few weeks.. I saw these guys buying beers again.. absolutely no remorse, regret or without any fear. Pushed me back in the line and went ahead for buying.. I didn't say anything.
Case 3: Coming out of great India place in Noida after watching 2012 (I am really fan of these kind of flicks), went alone.. (I was kind of forever alone guy) It was 12:30am, five guys in big audi were drinking out; moved their head to call me up close to them.. I was just looking for autos, then shouted.."BC come here".. I went, they were completely drunk and showed me a real new kind of gun, I don't have any clue why. I just said sorry many times, and pampered them. You all are great guys, they laughed and I took auto to come back. I was shit scared after case 2.
Case 4: Driving back with my pulsar on Noida expressway with normal speed of 80-90 kms, it was drizzling, and visibility was not really good. Saw one guy driving his cycle perpendicular to the road, If I brake, I will skid, If I hit, then probably somebody from behind will hit me. Closed my eyes and edged passed to this guy. I can not imagine that how I survived, but was really really lucky as all trucks, cars and anything can not brake in case I fall. I really don't know what this guy was doing there on the express highway with his fucking cycle!
Apart from these narrow escapes, which have really made me cherish the fact that I am alive, it made me scared also. I might have died also; all people in my family has some or other history of escaping accidents; small or big. Last time, when the tragedy happened in Tamilnadu express when one boggie caught fire (I think it was S13), I was in S3. again lucky.
Okay something about myself, simple, average guy. Tried to help others on weekend (teaching kids); sending all what I was earning since 5 years to my dad to pay back loans he took for our studies. paying a rent of 15K to survive, can not imagine to buy a house because to make down payment, I will have to take a loan.
Always worked hard to the best of my capabilities in office, (I am a 95% student throughout studies); always got the least grades, when it came for appraisals. May be because I was bad in licking.
Was not able to buy anything-save anything-feeling shit scared all the time-and not to say; tried to love my work; but never was respected.
All my close friends went Onsite, and looked fairly happy.
The only thing, that I can think of; I am a big time patriot; feel for India, but if I am not alive; what's the use of it?
I decided to leave.
Anya Khata, IIT/IIM Grad, trying to bring ... (more)
36 upvotes by Quora User, Animesh Ranjan, Saurav Mahapatra, (more)
I believe that any Indian who can afford a flight ticket abroad, should at least consider living abroad for a while :)
Any society which is not in a state of anarchy, is based on a basic social contract. The ruling-body grants its people a set of non-absolute "rights" - of course, since it would theoretically require infinite resources to grant people absolute rights.
If I stand in front of a mosque in Sultanpalya in Bangalore, and call all muslims "pigs", it is obvious why no state in the world would want to protect my right to freedom of expression. It would simply cost the state a lot of resources to control a mob.
It is for the same reason, that the Indian state cannot guarantee you rights to hold hands in public, kiss your girlfriend in a mall, or enjoy a juicy steak. There is a reason why McDonalds doesn't sell beef in India. No Indian government is protecting them against this:
Although rights are never absolute - a place where you have no rights at all, is called a jungle. The only thing that rules here is the law of the jungle. Thus, a state that is committed to protect the individual and collective rights of its people, is the farthest away from absolute savagery.
It is needless to even mention that our social system in India is a pretty close replica of law of the jungle. Well, we have even made movies around these themes
To protect rights, a state needs resources. Our issue fundamentally though, is that we are a poor country. Of course we do not have enough of this:
or what is required to buy these barrels above:
The deeper issue is that we are poor in every way that makes us human.Charity, humility, tolerance - we are just bankrupt!!!
It becomes much easier for a state to grant rights to its people, if the populace is not this thoroughly bankrupt.
Now, most of these words that I have used are very broad in nature, and have significant overlap. I will try and explain why I used each of these words, and the kind of problems they lead to.
Charity: How many people even contribute 50 rs. a month towards charity?
Humility: This is Mukesh Ambani's home in the middle of poverty ridden Mumbai. This huge building is for his family of 4 (or is it 5?) Seriously, how shameless can a person get?
Tolerance: The less said the better. That chick could just have been you!
The issue with being morally bankrupt is that when private society doesn't fill these spaces in society, the government has to. The government obviously has a heavy handed approach - ban late night parties, tax more, redistribute more..
There is perhaps one word to sum all of this up. We are an intellectually daft society, which is plagued by nationalistic, religious and cultural dogmas. In a democracy, the leaders truly represent and, in a way, reflect the aspirations, and intellect of the subjects. What can exemplify our collective lack of intellect better than this guy? - likely to be the PM candidate of the largest, and oldest party of the country:
Don't for one second think, that staying in India, you can be in the "top tier", and live comfortably since wages are so low. At some point in your life, you will have to deal with one or more of the following:
(1) Rapists and harassers who will try to rape you, your wives, girlfriends, daughters, sisters, even grandmums (they don't look this harmless in real life):
(2) Police brutality:
(3) Get mugged in broad daylights in public places:
(4) Corrupt Babus and Politicians
(5) Drive through this:
(6) And this:
(7) Pay crazy import duties (and excise and all the other taxes) and be the stupidest population in the world - one which pays the highest prices for the shittiest cars in the world, just to protect a few local companies from international competition. These protected car manufacturers, after 50+ years of crazy lobbying and ripping off indian customers, basically produced this piece of shit:
(8) And if you just happen to be LGBT (which is 5%+ of the population):
And all this, so that you can spend 50 hours a week+, in a shitty office like this where you work 30% more than your white counterpart, and earn 5 times less. Oh, your white counterpart drives a comfortable car in traffic-free roads, to and fro work. He/She can afford to live in nice green suburbs, 20kms from work, and still make it to office in 35 minutes. BTW, they also have public transport!
Hopefully you make enough money, and can afford flight fares to travel around a bit (where almost the entire price is just taxes), or else you are stuck trying on this legendary website:
And do not assume that the future of India is definitely bright! We have a pollution and infrastructure collapse. The pic below, is what was 10 years back called the Garden city of India:
The one below is a truer representation of our future:
Did I forget to mention that the food we eat in India, is also ridden with pesticides, and all sorts of hormones - milk, veggies, chicken - EVERYTHING! O
I love India as much as a lot of you guys do. A very large chunk of our post-liberalization generation (ones who are 24-34 today), chose to stay back because it seemed like things were improving - we had a decade of fast GDP growth, good jobs, increased connectivity to the world etc.
However the last few years have proven that a country cannot grow if only one section of society is growing. A large part of our population is (i) financially poor and (ii) intolerant. I really wish things change. However, they are not likely to - no matter who wins the elections. Modi, or AAP cannot change a country of 1.3b people overnight. Liberal Indians are a minority. Your votes are never going to change anything. If you really want to change something - vote with your wallet. Go and pay taxes in a country where the government will give you something back in return.
Any society which is not in a state of anarchy, is based on a basic social contract. The ruling-body grants its people a set of non-absolute "rights" - of course, since it would theoretically require infinite resources to grant people absolute rights.
If I stand in front of a mosque in Sultanpalya in Bangalore, and call all muslims "pigs", it is obvious why no state in the world would want to protect my right to freedom of expression. It would simply cost the state a lot of resources to control a mob.
It is needless to even mention that our social system in India is a pretty close replica of law of the jungle. Well, we have even made movies around these themes
To protect rights, a state needs resources. Our issue fundamentally though, is that we are a poor country. Of course we do not have enough of this:
It becomes much easier for a state to grant rights to its people, if the populace is not this thoroughly bankrupt.
Now, most of these words that I have used are very broad in nature, and have significant overlap. I will try and explain why I used each of these words, and the kind of problems they lead to.
Charity: How many people even contribute 50 rs. a month towards charity?
Humility: This is Mukesh Ambani's home in the middle of poverty ridden Mumbai. This huge building is for his family of 4 (or is it 5?) Seriously, how shameless can a person get?
Tolerance: The less said the better. That chick could just have been you!
The issue with being morally bankrupt is that when private society doesn't fill these spaces in society, the government has to. The government obviously has a heavy handed approach - ban late night parties, tax more, redistribute more..
There is perhaps one word to sum all of this up. We are an intellectually daft society, which is plagued by nationalistic, religious and cultural dogmas. In a democracy, the leaders truly represent and, in a way, reflect the aspirations, and intellect of the subjects. What can exemplify our collective lack of intellect better than this guy? - likely to be the PM candidate of the largest, and oldest party of the country:
Don't for one second think, that staying in India, you can be in the "top tier", and live comfortably since wages are so low. At some point in your life, you will have to deal with one or more of the following:
(1) Rapists and harassers who will try to rape you, your wives, girlfriends, daughters, sisters, even grandmums (they don't look this harmless in real life):
(2) Police brutality:
(3) Get mugged in broad daylights in public places:
(4) Corrupt Babus and Politicians
(5) Drive through this:
(6) And this:
(7) Pay crazy import duties (and excise and all the other taxes) and be the stupidest population in the world - one which pays the highest prices for the shittiest cars in the world, just to protect a few local companies from international competition. These protected car manufacturers, after 50+ years of crazy lobbying and ripping off indian customers, basically produced this piece of shit:
(8) And if you just happen to be LGBT (which is 5%+ of the population):
And all this, so that you can spend 50 hours a week+, in a shitty office like this where you work 30% more than your white counterpart, and earn 5 times less. Oh, your white counterpart drives a comfortable car in traffic-free roads, to and fro work. He/She can afford to live in nice green suburbs, 20kms from work, and still make it to office in 35 minutes. BTW, they also have public transport!
Hopefully you make enough money, and can afford flight fares to travel around a bit (where almost the entire price is just taxes), or else you are stuck trying on this legendary website:
And do not assume that the future of India is definitely bright! We have a pollution and infrastructure collapse. The pic below, is what was 10 years back called the Garden city of India:
The one below is a truer representation of our future:
Did I forget to mention that the food we eat in India, is also ridden with pesticides, and all sorts of hormones - milk, veggies, chicken - EVERYTHING! O
I love India as much as a lot of you guys do. A very large chunk of our post-liberalization generation (ones who are 24-34 today), chose to stay back because it seemed like things were improving - we had a decade of fast GDP growth, good jobs, increased connectivity to the world etc.
However the last few years have proven that a country cannot grow if only one section of society is growing. A large part of our population is (i) financially poor and (ii) intolerant. I really wish things change. However, they are not likely to - no matter who wins the elections. Modi, or AAP cannot change a country of 1.3b people overnight. Liberal Indians are a minority. Your votes are never going to change anything. If you really want to change something - vote with your wallet. Go and pay taxes in a country where the government will give you something back in return.
Background(Bear with me and do read this too.):
India is stagnating. As Sashi Tharoor said it is not under-developed but it is in an advance state of decay. In what way you ask? Well Sashi Tharoor may have his reasons but the decay I see is in the form of lack of humility to accept that our beliefs may be wrong and others may be right. We need to improve. We have to develop in ways we haven't in the past 70 years and for that we need to accept that we have failed on a lot of counts. So where do we need to improve, India does everything well but nothing awesome.
For instance a foreigner who visited India said,
Another paragraph says
So there are things we lack and we don't even know all of them and we need to know first. Did you know what Japan did when Comodore Perry came to the shores in 1853, they first resigned to the west, followed their rules and at the same time, sent people from Japan to study in West and then implemented those things in Japan. By 1900,(I quote this from my 10th Std. History TB) Japan, a victim of Imperialism, became an imperialist itself.
So, you may be wondering that this is irrelevant. But the background was necessary to convince you that India was changed and reformed in the 1900s by the people who travelled abroad, who saw the world and learnt from it. Gandhi, Nehru, the founders of Congress, all were in the west for education or were influenced by Western Education in someway. People are mistaken in thinking that the problems should be solved at the ground roots, they should be solved at another level and this can happen and is happening with Indians who live outside of India and come back with a view to change it. - (recent example Narayan Murthy)
Answer:
The point being that most like me are disgusted by Indians refusing the actual problems, by not taking responsibility. You say, those who stay here have a sense of responsibility but I disagree, a few probably do, but most don't. I am the one who made speeches in class but never on the actual Republic Day or Independence Day because I was too negative. Too Negative, bite me! But, trust me on one thing, we are not going anywhere by the "100 mei se 99 beimaan par mera bharat mahan." attitude. I want to go there and understand what we are doing wrong and comeback and do something for the country. But I can't deny the possibility that the life there won't be so appealing that I won't be able to leave it. And so, I think that most leave the country with the idea of coming back here in the back of their mind but in the end, end up staying there because of the appeal.
Pardon me if the answer sounds like a rant, I got a bit carried away.
India is stagnating. As Sashi Tharoor said it is not under-developed but it is in an advance state of decay. In what way you ask? Well Sashi Tharoor may have his reasons but the decay I see is in the form of lack of humility to accept that our beliefs may be wrong and others may be right. We need to improve. We have to develop in ways we haven't in the past 70 years and for that we need to accept that we have failed on a lot of counts. So where do we need to improve, India does everything well but nothing awesome.
For instance a foreigner who visited India said,
The city of Agra is home to the Taj Mahal and a wealth of other attractions that probably feel like their pretty sister gets all the attention. The foreigner admission fee for the Taj plus two other monuments is just 750 rupees ($14). That’s 40 times more expensive than the domestic price (20 rupees) but it’s still cripplingly low. Flanked by barbaric poverty on every side I want to scream: for the love of God, raise your prices.
Indeed, the western entrepreneur in me desperately wanted to run the place for a day. The best photos I’ve seen of the Taj are from the river behind it, yet there’s no way to get there? Build a bridge, and charge me to cross it. Offer overpriced boat tours. Collect donations from tourists. Build a proper museum, adorned with the finest of Indian culture. There were countless people hard-selling art we didn’t want to buy - I would happily pay just to walk round and look at it. And somebody, open a damn gift shop. 2 million people come here a year. Earn some more money. Please.
Another paragraph says
That said, travelling with my girlfriend we did perceive a fair whiff of sexism. Sometimes in a queue, with her in front of me, a man peered around to address me first, and then other men. Served at a dining table, I would be asked what the lady would like. With the exception of a few western hotels and the airport, we never saw any women working outside of the home or fields.
So there are things we lack and we don't even know all of them and we need to know first. Did you know what Japan did when Comodore Perry came to the shores in 1853, they first resigned to the west, followed their rules and at the same time, sent people from Japan to study in West and then implemented those things in Japan. By 1900,(I quote this from my 10th Std. History TB) Japan, a victim of Imperialism, became an imperialist itself.
So, you may be wondering that this is irrelevant. But the background was necessary to convince you that India was changed and reformed in the 1900s by the people who travelled abroad, who saw the world and learnt from it. Gandhi, Nehru, the founders of Congress, all were in the west for education or were influenced by Western Education in someway. People are mistaken in thinking that the problems should be solved at the ground roots, they should be solved at another level and this can happen and is happening with Indians who live outside of India and come back with a view to change it. - (recent example Narayan Murthy)
Answer:
The point being that most like me are disgusted by Indians refusing the actual problems, by not taking responsibility. You say, those who stay here have a sense of responsibility but I disagree, a few probably do, but most don't. I am the one who made speeches in class but never on the actual Republic Day or Independence Day because I was too negative. Too Negative, bite me! But, trust me on one thing, we are not going anywhere by the "100 mei se 99 beimaan par mera bharat mahan." attitude. I want to go there and understand what we are doing wrong and comeback and do something for the country. But I can't deny the possibility that the life there won't be so appealing that I won't be able to leave it. And so, I think that most leave the country with the idea of coming back here in the back of their mind but in the end, end up staying there because of the appeal.
Pardon me if the answer sounds like a rant, I got a bit carried away.
Loved India and always found its quirks and paradoxes amusing. It made the country like a breathing living organism with unique personality rather than a drab concept vested in real estate.
Unfortunately, Section 377 is an integral part of the constitution and it criminalizes me.
Not only do the forefathers of our republic choose to think so but also the modern courts of India. There is almost no political consensus to remove it and the electorate is just as apathetic, regressive and in denial.
Homosexuals are discriminated and belittled in so many subtle ways that nobody bats an eyelid.
Living a stable life with life partner and have a family/children is practically impossible in India due to social stigmas. Ignorance regarding the distinction amongst the populace between a Pedophile, Eunuch, Transexual and Homosexual is shocking.
Rural India which is 70% of India's population is an extremely hostile environment for a homosexual teen and man.
Most people either offer us basic liberties as alms or think us to be zoo animals to parade as their 'new gay friends'.
Unfortunately for me, I cannot not live in the bubble of family love and protection through the community/society that most indians are privileged to live. The ugly face of Indian society is only visible to those who are posed in such situations.
The society gives nothing to me. I owe nothing to it.
The day it gives me equal right and offers me protection as its citizen I will choose to return to India.
But till then I will plan my life in another nation and contribute all my energies in progress of that nation, cause it gives me more than my own motherland.
P.S.: Section 377 of Indian Penal Code implies consensual sex between gayadults a illegal and can be penalized by the court of law. The law was written more than 150 years ago. The reason this outdated law affects my life is cause legally I am prohibited from having a relationship and a family.
Unfortunately, Section 377 is an integral part of the constitution and it criminalizes me.
Not only do the forefathers of our republic choose to think so but also the modern courts of India. There is almost no political consensus to remove it and the electorate is just as apathetic, regressive and in denial.
Homosexuals are discriminated and belittled in so many subtle ways that nobody bats an eyelid.
Living a stable life with life partner and have a family/children is practically impossible in India due to social stigmas. Ignorance regarding the distinction amongst the populace between a Pedophile, Eunuch, Transexual and Homosexual is shocking.
Rural India which is 70% of India's population is an extremely hostile environment for a homosexual teen and man.
Most people either offer us basic liberties as alms or think us to be zoo animals to parade as their 'new gay friends'.
Unfortunately for me, I cannot not live in the bubble of family love and protection through the community/society that most indians are privileged to live. The ugly face of Indian society is only visible to those who are posed in such situations.
The society gives nothing to me. I owe nothing to it.
The day it gives me equal right and offers me protection as its citizen I will choose to return to India.
But till then I will plan my life in another nation and contribute all my energies in progress of that nation, cause it gives me more than my own motherland.
P.S.: Section 377 of Indian Penal Code implies consensual sex between gayadults a illegal and can be penalized by the court of law. The law was written more than 150 years ago. The reason this outdated law affects my life is cause legally I am prohibited from having a relationship and a family.
Lots of valid points, to all of which I agree and have felt the same. When someone asks me this question, I just have one line that sums it all up: "I want to live in a place where I feel respected as a human being and unfortunately, I don't feel that way in this country."
I am not saying everything is hunky dory in developed countries. Having lived in both North American and Europe, I have realised, pretty much all the shit that we face in India is there too. Only that, they are lesser in quantities. Much lesser.
A couple of common themes I encounter when discussing these issues are these:
A: Well, I didn't choose to be born in India. The place of my birth is a mere coincidence. That I should feel a certain sense of duty towards an imaginary boundary set up by my ancestors purely for political reasons doesn't bind me to feel anything towards it.
2. "We are like this because of our gigantic population"
A: Incorrect. We have a gigantic population because we are like this.Think of it this way. Thousands of years ago, we didn't have the population problem. Neither did any of the currently developed nations (Most of them were tribes when the people living in the current political boundary of India were solving complex mathematical issues of the day). Fast forward to the 21st century, the developed nations still don't have a population problem. But we do. So clearly, we have created this problem for ourselves.
True, there are some brilliant things happening in India, Open Source Drug Discovery, for example, is an amazing concept that has been discovered by India and our recent mission of Mars is exemplary in creating fuel efficient space missions. However, such things are few and far between with people not just encouraging, but going out of their way to reward mediocrity. Such factors, along with the ones that have already mentioned and many more combine to make Indians get out of India.
I am not saying everything is hunky dory in developed countries. Having lived in both North American and Europe, I have realised, pretty much all the shit that we face in India is there too. Only that, they are lesser in quantities. Much lesser.
A couple of common themes I encounter when discussing these issues are these:
- "Dude! You're being unpatriotic! You should respect your motherland!
A: Well, I didn't choose to be born in India. The place of my birth is a mere coincidence. That I should feel a certain sense of duty towards an imaginary boundary set up by my ancestors purely for political reasons doesn't bind me to feel anything towards it.
2. "We are like this because of our gigantic population"
A: Incorrect. We have a gigantic population because we are like this.Think of it this way. Thousands of years ago, we didn't have the population problem. Neither did any of the currently developed nations (Most of them were tribes when the people living in the current political boundary of India were solving complex mathematical issues of the day). Fast forward to the 21st century, the developed nations still don't have a population problem. But we do. So clearly, we have created this problem for ourselves.
True, there are some brilliant things happening in India, Open Source Drug Discovery, for example, is an amazing concept that has been discovered by India and our recent mission of Mars is exemplary in creating fuel efficient space missions. However, such things are few and far between with people not just encouraging, but going out of their way to reward mediocrity. Such factors, along with the ones that have already mentioned and many more combine to make Indians get out of India.
New dad to a beautiful baby girl here. One top reason for staying away from India: The safety of my daughter. India is on the top 5 list of most dangerous places for women, no matter who makes the list. The Five Most Dangerous Countries To Be A Woman
There are plenty of other reasons as well but nothing trumps the above. Every other reason, I feel like I have some control over, but not this. I saw the other typical patriotic answers "stop complaining, it is up to us to change things". No, it is not up to me to solve all of the world's problems. I would like to live my life without having to worry to death about the safety of my family, especially my wife and daughter. It is not my calling in life to solve India's issues and don't judge me for it.
Other things I'd like to have in life (very basic, IMO) that I'm pretty certain I will not get in India:
1) If I happen to be in an accident, I would like to know that someone (preferably an ambulance with proper medical personnel) will take me to the hospital and that vehicles on the road will make way for the ambulance.
2) I would like to be healthy. When I was in India, I used to be down with fever twice a month on average, including asthma related issues. I've been here in the US for 5 years now and I haven't had either issue... not once!
3) I would like to do research in the cognitive sciences, which is what I'm trained to do. I spent a good decade of my life preparing for this career. I do not want to live in a country that values nothing but engineering and medicine.
4) See Human Development Reports. India is at 135. Even Palestine and Iraq seem to be doing better and that is just appalling!
EDIT: 5) People like the first "commenter" on this post who feel the need to go around poking their nose into everybody else's business (including how they think other people ought to raise their kids and where they ought to raise them and who provide unsolicited opinions on a million other personal matters) constitutes another major pain in the ass when living in India.
You get the idea, so I'll stop here with the list. I'm not saying other countries are perfect. However India has too many problems that will not get solved in the near future no matter how hard one tries. One only needs to look at the journey Kejriwal has taken. People laugh at him for even trying. The people of India will continue voting for the two most crooked parties and will continue being their victims in cycles of 5-10 years. So I'm sorry for not staying but do not judge me for it. If you are comfortable with spending half your professional life fighting red tape, corruption and bureaucracy, then do so by all means. I would like to put that time to better use and if another country offers me that opportunity, I'll take it.
There are plenty of other reasons as well but nothing trumps the above. Every other reason, I feel like I have some control over, but not this. I saw the other typical patriotic answers "stop complaining, it is up to us to change things". No, it is not up to me to solve all of the world's problems. I would like to live my life without having to worry to death about the safety of my family, especially my wife and daughter. It is not my calling in life to solve India's issues and don't judge me for it.
Other things I'd like to have in life (very basic, IMO) that I'm pretty certain I will not get in India:
1) If I happen to be in an accident, I would like to know that someone (preferably an ambulance with proper medical personnel) will take me to the hospital and that vehicles on the road will make way for the ambulance.
2) I would like to be healthy. When I was in India, I used to be down with fever twice a month on average, including asthma related issues. I've been here in the US for 5 years now and I haven't had either issue... not once!
3) I would like to do research in the cognitive sciences, which is what I'm trained to do. I spent a good decade of my life preparing for this career. I do not want to live in a country that values nothing but engineering and medicine.
4) See Human Development Reports. India is at 135. Even Palestine and Iraq seem to be doing better and that is just appalling!
EDIT: 5) People like the first "commenter" on this post who feel the need to go around poking their nose into everybody else's business (including how they think other people ought to raise their kids and where they ought to raise them and who provide unsolicited opinions on a million other personal matters) constitutes another major pain in the ass when living in India.
You get the idea, so I'll stop here with the list. I'm not saying other countries are perfect. However India has too many problems that will not get solved in the near future no matter how hard one tries. One only needs to look at the journey Kejriwal has taken. People laugh at him for even trying. The people of India will continue voting for the two most crooked parties and will continue being their victims in cycles of 5-10 years. So I'm sorry for not staying but do not judge me for it. If you are comfortable with spending half your professional life fighting red tape, corruption and bureaucracy, then do so by all means. I would like to put that time to better use and if another country offers me that opportunity, I'll take it.
Can you believe that? No, my cousins back in India never did too. I was never that geeky kind of a gal. I used to look hep (relatively) Put makeup on, always listened to music etc and appeared dumb. They, including some of my high scoring friends always looked down on me!
But the similar kind of smart people in US, appreciated me, welcomed me here. And now I'm heading towards a manager role.
THIS, would definitely not have happened if I lived in India. I know what I would have been doing if I lived there- definitely cooking in the kitchen helping my MIL and what not.
But nevertheless, it sucks to stay away from your country, far from your loved ones.
But the similar kind of smart people in US, appreciated me, welcomed me here. And now I'm heading towards a manager role.
THIS, would definitely not have happened if I lived in India. I know what I would have been doing if I lived there- definitely cooking in the kitchen helping my MIL and what not.
But nevertheless, it sucks to stay away from your country, far from your loved ones.
Inspite of a lot of problems like safety, infrastructure, clean air, traffic, backward people, moral policing, etc. I would still have liked to live and work in India. The main problem I see is a lack of career opportunities for me specifically. As a a social science researcher, I face a complete lack of funding for research. Add to this the fact that research salaries and quality of life aren't that great, and other countries suddenly look a lot better. Sure other countries have their own problems, but in my context, they're better, thiough I can see why many people wouldn't want to leave India. It's all a question of what you're going to gain in exchange for what you're giving up. If the former is greater, leave. If the latter is greater, stay.
Motivation- I want to retire at 34 ;-)
Its starts with looking for greener pastures i.e the green bacht.
Education and globalization creates opputunities for us to travel abroad.When you can make atleast 5 times more money than you make here at home, give it a try .you may be able to retire at 34 and then follow your passion.Sounds a little crazy but working in IT teaches thats its better to retire young and follow ur passion rather than aspiring to be a GM/CTO when you are 50.
Recognition:-I'm one of the X number of people with this Expertise
It's a good job ,yeah we miss family at times but hey i can take a month long vacation in a year which would never be possible in India, Buy a house ,gifts for mom/dad, bros ,distant relatives.Make sure you check the exchange rate every single day.
At one point your have more friends outside your home country
Join the Elite club -Being a Crorepati
After a few years of staying abroad its seeking recognition i.e interms of monetary as well as skillswise.But now you made some money and have a good bank balance and proud of contributing your bit to your country.Oh Yes with all my $ help stablizing the rupee. One would have dreamt of making his/her first 1C(10 million INR) and now you joined the elite club.now you have investments in your country and you are checking it continously if they are doing well.
Social Recognition -A Hero living all your neighbor's praise
This is an excellent feeling where people that never minded you at all back home are full of praises now.you are a hero, This feeling is awesome "Give me more".Everyone greets you with a smile and they really Care for you.a GF/BF is awesome at this stage but you'll be 30 soon ,Eish
It's time to get married one way or the other ,i mean arranged/love marriage.
It's all about dealing with reposnsibilities now with families extended families,its time to donate to school/charities/poor etc.
Next Big leap forward - Parent & Aspiring to be a extrepreneur
This is a big task being a Parent you have softened and life and traveling has taught a lot of things and its time to positive ,confident and patient
and the next stage will be your own business.
The Quest goes untill you realise Nothing compares to home and now you are looking for a job back home and busy catching up with old friends and colleagues
The big question now is WILL I BE ABLE TO RETIRE AT 34 ??
Its starts with looking for greener pastures i.e the green bacht.
Education and globalization creates opputunities for us to travel abroad.When you can make atleast 5 times more money than you make here at home, give it a try .you may be able to retire at 34 and then follow your passion.Sounds a little crazy but working in IT teaches thats its better to retire young and follow ur passion rather than aspiring to be a GM/CTO when you are 50.
Recognition:-I'm one of the X number of people with this Expertise
It's a good job ,yeah we miss family at times but hey i can take a month long vacation in a year which would never be possible in India, Buy a house ,gifts for mom/dad, bros ,distant relatives.Make sure you check the exchange rate every single day.
At one point your have more friends outside your home country
Join the Elite club -Being a Crorepati
After a few years of staying abroad its seeking recognition i.e interms of monetary as well as skillswise.But now you made some money and have a good bank balance and proud of contributing your bit to your country.Oh Yes with all my $ help stablizing the rupee. One would have dreamt of making his/her first 1C(10 million INR) and now you joined the elite club.now you have investments in your country and you are checking it continously if they are doing well.
Social Recognition -A Hero living all your neighbor's praise
This is an excellent feeling where people that never minded you at all back home are full of praises now.you are a hero, This feeling is awesome "Give me more".Everyone greets you with a smile and they really Care for you.a GF/BF is awesome at this stage but you'll be 30 soon ,Eish
It's time to get married one way or the other ,i mean arranged/love marriage.
It's all about dealing with reposnsibilities now with families extended families,its time to donate to school/charities/poor etc.
Next Big leap forward - Parent & Aspiring to be a extrepreneur
This is a big task being a Parent you have softened and life and traveling has taught a lot of things and its time to positive ,confident and patient
and the next stage will be your own business.
The Quest goes untill you realise Nothing compares to home and now you are looking for a job back home and busy catching up with old friends and colleagues
The big question now is WILL I BE ABLE TO RETIRE AT 34 ??
Neiyaz Imam, Chemical Engineer , Atheist, C... (more)
4 upvotes by Gopal Sinha, Alok Shukla, Arjun K Vijayakumar, (more)
People seem to be giving a very subjective answers.Lack of opportunities,mediocrity and other reasons,basically the answers are more for what do they think is wrong with India rather than why would they like to leave it(similar but not the same thing).
For me the reason is very simple and very compelling.
I have to write a book exposing my ex religion Islam.
Now of course people will disagree here with lines like there is nothing to expose.
But thats not the point,the point is India doesn't have freedom of speech when it comes to certain things and one of the big ones is religion,you can't criticize religion and get away with it,and i don't want to end up being another Taslima Nasrin,under house arrest,slapped with a million lawsuits,under constant threat of violence(it will be there in other places too no doubt but considerably less) and a punching bag for politicians looking for some mileage. So despite everything that India has to offer,before i publish my book i will have to leave India.
And trust me i don't want to do it.I have been born,bred and buttered here.Almost all my family is in here,and i love almost everything this country has to offer but leaving India is the only viable option for me.
For me the reason is very simple and very compelling.
I have to write a book exposing my ex religion Islam.
Now of course people will disagree here with lines like there is nothing to expose.
But thats not the point,the point is India doesn't have freedom of speech when it comes to certain things and one of the big ones is religion,you can't criticize religion and get away with it,and i don't want to end up being another Taslima Nasrin,under house arrest,slapped with a million lawsuits,under constant threat of violence(it will be there in other places too no doubt but considerably less) and a punching bag for politicians looking for some mileage. So despite everything that India has to offer,before i publish my book i will have to leave India.
And trust me i don't want to do it.I have been born,bred and buttered here.Almost all my family is in here,and i love almost everything this country has to offer but leaving India is the only viable option for me.
Varun Upadhyay,
12 upvotes by Aditya Shanker Tagirisa, Ashwin Balasubramaniam, Rajesh Manchala, (more)
To be in a situation or an enviroment where I can be sure that if I am working hard and I have the right skills then I will be having the best shot for an opportunity rather than someone else grabbing the chance just because his generations suffered in the colonial India some 60 years ago or he has an advantage of having an MLA as his father.
I want to be in a country where I am allowed to express my choices and study what I am really interested in without having to worry about the market value of my degree.
Where the professors are there to guide me rather than to force me to learn the subjects which are part of a sylabus which has not been revised from decades.
Where learning is enjoyed as a journey rather than the end product being used as a scale for declaring a person as smart or stupid
I want to be in a country where I am allowed to express my choices and study what I am really interested in without having to worry about the market value of my degree.
Where the professors are there to guide me rather than to force me to learn the subjects which are part of a sylabus which has not been revised from decades.
Where learning is enjoyed as a journey rather than the end product being used as a scale for declaring a person as smart or stupid
I've had some experience in living in Europe. Not that I am moving out of India, but If I do eventually in time it will be mainly because of the following factors - in order of irritation.
Our cities - air, water and shelter
Our cities have primarily turned into big ghettos with abysmal standards of living. The air has degraded - maybe not as much as in China, but bad enough. Most people spend half their lives on the road because of the traffic. There is no guarantee of clean water. Of course I understand that our cities are in a stage of transition and cannot be compared with finished 'products', but I wouldn't want to wait till my next incarnation for the basic needs to be fulfilled.
Jugaad and lack of planning
No, I don't think jugaad is something to be proud of. If signifies laziness, low quality standards and compromise. This also results in a complete lack of planning for anything in all spheres of life resulting in the famed Indian Standard Time way of following time.
Discrimination via judgement
We are quick to judge a person based on all the wrong reasons - gender, colour, caste, etc. Yours truly stands accused of that on many counts. Not that this is rectified in all countries, but not being last in such a race is nothing to be proud of.
Money
Self explanatory.
Our cities - air, water and shelter
Our cities have primarily turned into big ghettos with abysmal standards of living. The air has degraded - maybe not as much as in China, but bad enough. Most people spend half their lives on the road because of the traffic. There is no guarantee of clean water. Of course I understand that our cities are in a stage of transition and cannot be compared with finished 'products', but I wouldn't want to wait till my next incarnation for the basic needs to be fulfilled.
Jugaad and lack of planning
No, I don't think jugaad is something to be proud of. If signifies laziness, low quality standards and compromise. This also results in a complete lack of planning for anything in all spheres of life resulting in the famed Indian Standard Time way of following time.
Discrimination via judgement
We are quick to judge a person based on all the wrong reasons - gender, colour, caste, etc. Yours truly stands accused of that on many counts. Not that this is rectified in all countries, but not being last in such a race is nothing to be proud of.
Money
Self explanatory.
Quora User, I am what I am. If I wasn't, w... (more)
4 upvotes by Ankur Agrawal, Hrishikesh Juvale, Zora Valinova, (more)
My perspective: India is a very stressful place to live, hence people move out.
1. Corruption in every aspect everywhere
2. Total lack of civic sense and cleanliness
3. Lack of infrastructure
4. Overcrowded and chaotic
5. Regressive and narrow minded society
All the above lead to a poor quality of life. Hence the urge among people to emigrate. Rightfully so.
1. Corruption in every aspect everywhere
2. Total lack of civic sense and cleanliness
3. Lack of infrastructure
4. Overcrowded and chaotic
5. Regressive and narrow minded society
All the above lead to a poor quality of life. Hence the urge among people to emigrate. Rightfully so.
Akash Chandra, Borrowed time and borrowed wor... (more)
6 upvotes by Amit Zala, Harsh Maan, Alok Shukla, (more)
1. Because people lose their shit when someone cuts into the queue ahead of them, but they themselves have no problem cutting into a queue at another place and time.
Generally, moral hypocrisy abounds.
2. Westerners say "age is just a number." We say "freedom of speech is just a bunch of words."
3. At any given time, we are busy hating either
5. Excessive celebration of/pride over all the wrong aspects of the present.
6. Poor sanitation and public/personal hygiene and manners.
7. Indian weddings.
8. Indian fetish for gold.
9. "What will people say?"
10. Bollywood/Tollywood/Kolly
Generally, moral hypocrisy abounds.
2. Westerners say "age is just a number." We say "freedom of speech is just a bunch of words."
3. At any given time, we are busy hating either
- Pakistanis.
- Northies/Southies.
- People who don't speak our language; and/or
- People who are generally better than us.
5. Excessive celebration of/pride over all the wrong aspects of the present.
6. Poor sanitation and public/personal hygiene and manners.
7. Indian weddings.
8. Indian fetish for gold.
9. "What will people say?"
10. Bollywood/Tollywood/Kolly
Anonymous
1 upvote by Quora User.
Let me tell you a story, around 1986 a man from Australia offered my father a job, who was working as a wireless and satellite engineer in R&D. My dad refused this job, precisely thinking of two reasons, the culture he'd let his children grown in and his love for India. Few years later, his market leading government sponsored organization was sick, he wanted to quit but was forced to stay to help manage a hopeless situation. He finally got take-it-or-leave-it VRS, with salary arrears of over 7 years still unpaid (and probably never to be paid), with no savings for his post retirement life and a pension of around a 1000 rupees a month.
One fine evening a few years ago, he told me to not come back if I ever get a chance to work abroad. At that time I felt it impossible to leave and not work for the country. For him the belief in systems, structure, work environment and judiciary all had failed.
A few years ago I moved to Europe for an assignment, never thinking that I'd stay back. In 2013, the assignment was over and I was back with my wife. We both thought to find new jobs, but my wife who had taken a break after our wedding was constantly reminded of a break in her job being the reason for not getting interview calls. Skills did not matter, nor did the fact that the qualifications were exemplary. Meanwhile I had to commute almost 2.5 hours a day within the same town, we could barely give time to each other. Not to mention the evening when I walked 4 kilometers on foot after public bus had a fault and taxiwallahs didn't 'feel' like going in the direction of my home. Oh yes, the traffic police couldn't help either.
It was then I realized that I was missing the balance in life, time for my family, more enjoyable work which I was getting in Europe. An opportunity soon presented and I came to Germany. Within three months my wife found a job, where the employer didn't ask about her 'break'.
In India, I'd not be comfortable about her venturing out late, out here I know it is safe.
There is no right side or wrong side in this debate, to each his own, everyone has their own priorities and preferences. By no means life in India is terrible, the comfort of one's own land, language and people cannot be ignored as well.
One fine evening a few years ago, he told me to not come back if I ever get a chance to work abroad. At that time I felt it impossible to leave and not work for the country. For him the belief in systems, structure, work environment and judiciary all had failed.
A few years ago I moved to Europe for an assignment, never thinking that I'd stay back. In 2013, the assignment was over and I was back with my wife. We both thought to find new jobs, but my wife who had taken a break after our wedding was constantly reminded of a break in her job being the reason for not getting interview calls. Skills did not matter, nor did the fact that the qualifications were exemplary. Meanwhile I had to commute almost 2.5 hours a day within the same town, we could barely give time to each other. Not to mention the evening when I walked 4 kilometers on foot after public bus had a fault and taxiwallahs didn't 'feel' like going in the direction of my home. Oh yes, the traffic police couldn't help either.
It was then I realized that I was missing the balance in life, time for my family, more enjoyable work which I was getting in Europe. An opportunity soon presented and I came to Germany. Within three months my wife found a job, where the employer didn't ask about her 'break'.
In India, I'd not be comfortable about her venturing out late, out here I know it is safe.
There is no right side or wrong side in this debate, to each his own, everyone has their own priorities and preferences. By no means life in India is terrible, the comfort of one's own land, language and people cannot be ignored as well.
Lack of civic sense, poor literacy rates which impact the entire society in general, education system that fails to educate and an ever crumbling infrastructure that was built by the British and destroyed by the indians.
More over, our economy is run by the Americans and Europeans and we rely on their money to keep the Indian economy growing. We rely on their market and creativity to create jobs in india. When the global economy starts to tumble, the RBI chairman starts to sweat because we have nothing to offer the world anything but grains and fruit because even after being proudly independent for 67 years, we are still a banana republic. Therefore we start imposing financial regulations that in essence prevent withdrawal of investment money and liquidation of assets at a high rate. This is just a piece of the pie.
The biggest issue is that our government is in shambles and cannot be run efficiently until we set the bar for the type of candidates that can be hired to run it in such an effective manner for which we need to ensure that good education is accessible to everyone and this in turn depends on the availability of the teachers and the fact that the teachers themselves like to teach.
Engineering and scientific education is seriously lacking because of the lack of proper regulations and oversight bodies that would allow the right kind of people to enroll as professors. We do not graduate enough PhDs worthy of conducting research. We dont have enough research institutions and we certainly dont do enough fundamental research specially for the advancement of quality of life and human civilization in India. DRDO, which basically is responsible for developing technologies that would arm India to be globally competent in its defense technologies, barely develops anything by itself. People working for these government corporations get paid poorly and therefore attract the most unmotivated and non-determined people who are happy being mediocre.
The curriculum in our schools and colleges is outdated and constitutes what a good engineer would consider ancient. The facilities are terrible and most of the infrastructure is a joke because half the equipment is either broken or does not even work properly. The faculty dont give a damn about the students and have no passion for teaching. Graduating students need to think about what they learnt for a little bit before they can even start really working. The best indian faculty is in the USA or Europe. Every year a ~25,000 students emigrate to the USA and more than 50% stay back to work. There are 1.7 million immigrant indians alone in the US as of 2010 and this number has been ever growing. I havent even mentioned the humungus numbers already present in Australia, UK, New Zealand, Canada, Singapore, Germany and the Gulf (UAE, Qatar, Oman, Kuwait and Bahrain).
Public health is basically a joke and so is healthcare. All drugs that are manufactured are licensed from the US or the EU. The ones that are manufactured in India are generic brands that were originally developed in the US, Canada or the EU. They are now publicly sold in India because 10+ year old patents on them have expired and they can now be claimed by other pharma industries.
Dont even get me started on the horrible form of democracy we have that basically runs on bribery and is fueled by corruption. Law enforcement does not even come close to enforcing half the laws. Politics is a safe haven for criminals and a breeding ground for further committing crimes. What more ?! Women are an exception to laws. I strongly believe that India is probably the second worst place for women after Saudi Arabia. At least in Saudi, they dont get raped as much even though they are heavily suppressed.
This country needs non-tolerance laws for hate crimes and crimes against women, animals and children. Yes animals need protection too. They cant be just hunted down for being furry or have a certain type of skin. Invest in R&D to make synthetic leather instead of falling to western consumers who want your cows' skin for luxury. India has a huge bio-diversity and our illiterate government needs to do act on protecting and conserving the flora and fauna that we as humans are responsible for.
Its not ok to plant GMO seeds on our soil, its not ok to use pestiscides on crops that will feed an entire population unaware of its side effects, its not ok to murder cows for reasons other than eating, its not ok to suppress women and dictate their behaviour in our society, its not ok to let women be sold to saudi kings for a price, its not ok to allow child labour, its not ok TO SAY OK TO THINGS THAT AMERICA SAYS ARE OK.
More over, our economy is run by the Americans and Europeans and we rely on their money to keep the Indian economy growing. We rely on their market and creativity to create jobs in india. When the global economy starts to tumble, the RBI chairman starts to sweat because we have nothing to offer the world anything but grains and fruit because even after being proudly independent for 67 years, we are still a banana republic. Therefore we start imposing financial regulations that in essence prevent withdrawal of investment money and liquidation of assets at a high rate. This is just a piece of the pie.
The biggest issue is that our government is in shambles and cannot be run efficiently until we set the bar for the type of candidates that can be hired to run it in such an effective manner for which we need to ensure that good education is accessible to everyone and this in turn depends on the availability of the teachers and the fact that the teachers themselves like to teach.
Engineering and scientific education is seriously lacking because of the lack of proper regulations and oversight bodies that would allow the right kind of people to enroll as professors. We do not graduate enough PhDs worthy of conducting research. We dont have enough research institutions and we certainly dont do enough fundamental research specially for the advancement of quality of life and human civilization in India. DRDO, which basically is responsible for developing technologies that would arm India to be globally competent in its defense technologies, barely develops anything by itself. People working for these government corporations get paid poorly and therefore attract the most unmotivated and non-determined people who are happy being mediocre.
The curriculum in our schools and colleges is outdated and constitutes what a good engineer would consider ancient. The facilities are terrible and most of the infrastructure is a joke because half the equipment is either broken or does not even work properly. The faculty dont give a damn about the students and have no passion for teaching. Graduating students need to think about what they learnt for a little bit before they can even start really working. The best indian faculty is in the USA or Europe. Every year a ~25,000 students emigrate to the USA and more than 50% stay back to work. There are 1.7 million immigrant indians alone in the US as of 2010 and this number has been ever growing. I havent even mentioned the humungus numbers already present in Australia, UK, New Zealand, Canada, Singapore, Germany and the Gulf (UAE, Qatar, Oman, Kuwait and Bahrain).
Public health is basically a joke and so is healthcare. All drugs that are manufactured are licensed from the US or the EU. The ones that are manufactured in India are generic brands that were originally developed in the US, Canada or the EU. They are now publicly sold in India because 10+ year old patents on them have expired and they can now be claimed by other pharma industries.
Dont even get me started on the horrible form of democracy we have that basically runs on bribery and is fueled by corruption. Law enforcement does not even come close to enforcing half the laws. Politics is a safe haven for criminals and a breeding ground for further committing crimes. What more ?! Women are an exception to laws. I strongly believe that India is probably the second worst place for women after Saudi Arabia. At least in Saudi, they dont get raped as much even though they are heavily suppressed.
This country needs non-tolerance laws for hate crimes and crimes against women, animals and children. Yes animals need protection too. They cant be just hunted down for being furry or have a certain type of skin. Invest in R&D to make synthetic leather instead of falling to western consumers who want your cows' skin for luxury. India has a huge bio-diversity and our illiterate government needs to do act on protecting and conserving the flora and fauna that we as humans are responsible for.
Its not ok to plant GMO seeds on our soil, its not ok to use pestiscides on crops that will feed an entire population unaware of its side effects, its not ok to murder cows for reasons other than eating, its not ok to suppress women and dictate their behaviour in our society, its not ok to let women be sold to saudi kings for a price, its not ok to allow child labour, its not ok TO SAY OK TO THINGS THAT AMERICA SAYS ARE OK.
Point 1:
If you are going abroad from India=> you are financially pretty sound => you/your family had ample opportunities to earn=> there is no big issue of you being discriminated here.
Point 2:
Yes there is caste discrimination, pollution, haphazardness and what not(mentioned in other answers).
But since you went abroad=> you were financially sound=> you were living in a decent place=> these things were not affecting you much.
Concluding, the reason for people leaving India is mainly because they are attracted to the fancy lifestyle and opportunities abroad. It's not that opportunities are not present in India, it's just that you have to work your ass off to grab those.
So, most people are basically afraid to work their ass off(real hard) and think of earning quick and living fancy.
Which, brings me to
Point 3:
Your favourite country, the US of A was once much worse than India at present, but what it is today is because its people decided not to leave it but to work their ass off to make it better. That is why US people are called one of the most dedicated and hardworking towards their country.
P.S.: half of my family members cater to NRI group.
If you are going abroad from India=> you are financially pretty sound => you/your family had ample opportunities to earn=> there is no big issue of you being discriminated here.
Point 2:
Yes there is caste discrimination, pollution, haphazardness and what not(mentioned in other answers).
But since you went abroad=> you were financially sound=> you were living in a decent place=> these things were not affecting you much.
Concluding, the reason for people leaving India is mainly because they are attracted to the fancy lifestyle and opportunities abroad. It's not that opportunities are not present in India, it's just that you have to work your ass off to grab those.
So, most people are basically afraid to work their ass off(real hard) and think of earning quick and living fancy.
Which, brings me to
Point 3:
Your favourite country, the US of A was once much worse than India at present, but what it is today is because its people decided not to leave it but to work their ass off to make it better. That is why US people are called one of the most dedicated and hardworking towards their country.
P.S.: half of my family members cater to NRI group.
All the objective reasons stated in various answers above give a good picture about India vs The world.
I would like to give a more wide answer so as to explain the overall ideology behind this.
First of all, I would request you to please ponder over this counter question:
In India itself, why does a person leaves his/her hometown which can be a village, a small town or a two-tier city and comes and starts living in a metro city or any other city for that matter?
For this simple reason: He/she deduced that they would have a better opportunity in that new place.
A better opportunity in terms of education or livelihood or finding love or any other reason that the person holds dear.
The point is that in India, it happens all the time that a person shifts his home to some other place in the country for search of a better life.
In the basic sense, this is exactly analogous to a person shifting to a new country.
Analyzing most of the emigration happening from the country, it can be seen easily that all of them happens because at the end that person will get something in the new country that he/she could not get here. Or at least the difficulty of achieving that goal in that country would be less than the difficulty in India (even after offsetting the monetary and emotional costs of uprooting your life and settling in a new place).
As simple and logical as that.
Its just a single life we have. Making the best out of it is the most primitive instinct that exists in a human being.
P.S:
Patriotism & Nationalism exists and is a very real thing. Just the degree to which one is motivated by these 2 ideologies differs.
In the end, it all boils down to making the best out of one's life, emotionally and tangibly.
Disclaimer:
I am a happy and harassed Indian, who has faced problems and success, both, in this country. It is precisely for this reason that I understand the thinking behind emigrants.
I would like to give a more wide answer so as to explain the overall ideology behind this.
First of all, I would request you to please ponder over this counter question:
In India itself, why does a person leaves his/her hometown which can be a village, a small town or a two-tier city and comes and starts living in a metro city or any other city for that matter?
For this simple reason: He/she deduced that they would have a better opportunity in that new place.
A better opportunity in terms of education or livelihood or finding love or any other reason that the person holds dear.
The point is that in India, it happens all the time that a person shifts his home to some other place in the country for search of a better life.
In the basic sense, this is exactly analogous to a person shifting to a new country.
Analyzing most of the emigration happening from the country, it can be seen easily that all of them happens because at the end that person will get something in the new country that he/she could not get here. Or at least the difficulty of achieving that goal in that country would be less than the difficulty in India (even after offsetting the monetary and emotional costs of uprooting your life and settling in a new place).
As simple and logical as that.
Its just a single life we have. Making the best out of it is the most primitive instinct that exists in a human being.
P.S:
Patriotism & Nationalism exists and is a very real thing. Just the degree to which one is motivated by these 2 ideologies differs.
In the end, it all boils down to making the best out of one's life, emotionally and tangibly.
Disclaimer:
I am a happy and harassed Indian, who has faced problems and success, both, in this country. It is precisely for this reason that I understand the thinking behind emigrants.
Chetan Patil, If the Door has Closed, Use th... (more)
4 upvotes by Anonymous, Alok Shukla, Ankur Agrawal, (more)
Here is a good Answer...written by Vijay Simha is an independent journalist and sobriety campaigner was as executive editor with The Financial World..
Sify : 10 great reasons to leave India
Sify : 10 great reasons to leave India
Read this : http://www.quora.com/Indi
you will get your answer
you will get your answer
in india , if you dont have money , life is miserable for you - officials are going to make u wait in lines for hours n hours for the same work for which a VIP or a wealthy person will slip a rs.500 note
god forbid you land into jail , with no one to bail you or 'contacts' even though youre the most clean person on this planet , the police is going to blame you for either theft / murder / whatever case they want to close . and then ofcourse you start living in hell .
if you also have little money and no power , the same court case which for a rich can be settled within an year , will take ages , before you know , your 4th generation is fighting for your justice.
these are reasons that make life difficult in india , the reason why i want to leave India , is honestly i cant see people not getting justice , i cant see or bear the thought of anyone being trapped in the corruption and conspiracys . its sad what people do for money , esp policemen , they forget that at the end of the day they are also humans ,and that should be a good enough reason to stop inhumane treatment of people
* all the above are observations ive made as a child , and i have an example for every situation above , when i think of it , my blood boils , i honestly dont know where to start and get these people justice * just pray that god gives them what they deserve .*
god forbid you land into jail , with no one to bail you or 'contacts' even though youre the most clean person on this planet , the police is going to blame you for either theft / murder / whatever case they want to close . and then ofcourse you start living in hell .
if you also have little money and no power , the same court case which for a rich can be settled within an year , will take ages , before you know , your 4th generation is fighting for your justice.
these are reasons that make life difficult in india , the reason why i want to leave India , is honestly i cant see people not getting justice , i cant see or bear the thought of anyone being trapped in the corruption and conspiracys . its sad what people do for money , esp policemen , they forget that at the end of the day they are also humans ,and that should be a good enough reason to stop inhumane treatment of people
* all the above are observations ive made as a child , and i have an example for every situation above , when i think of it , my blood boils , i honestly dont know where to start and get these people justice * just pray that god gives them what they deserve .*
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